[TPIN] Are Symphony Orchestras Today Too Loud?

[William Graham]

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Tim Swensen" <kanstulpicc-tpin at yahoo.com>
To: <tpin at tpin.okcu.edu>
Sent: Saturday, August 19, 2006 3:16 PM
Subject: Re: [TPIN] Are Symphony Orchestras Today Too Loud?


>
>  Paul,
>
>  I understand your point, and I wasn't arguing that orchestral music 
> should be
>  all mezzo forte.  I was wondering if the general tendency has been to 
> make the
>  sound louder and louder over time so that what was once considered 
> fortissimo
>  is now just considered forte.
>
>  And regarding the sound levels heard in the audience, I do disagree. 
> It's hit
>  the pain threshold a couple of times for me, and I'm quite certain my 
> hearing is
>  normal.
>
>  The ITG Journal a few issues back had an interview of a trumpet section 
> of
>  one of the US orchestras -- the National Symphony if I recall correctly.
>  When the interviewer asked the principal trumpet what he _didn't_ want to
>  hear from the conductor it was "Louder, brass!"  He said that often the
>  percussion plays too loud.  Ask them to cut back so we can be heard.
>
>  Tim
>
>
>
> Trptmast at aol.com wrote:
>        In a message dated 8/19/2006 4:41:19 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, 
> trumpetplayer at optusnet.com.au writes:
>  Well, no one else is going to say it, but yes, I think orchestras are
> making more sound than in the past. There are a number of reasons for
> this, which, IMHO all combine to have this effect.
>
> (As an aside, my partner, who is not a musician, has expressed her
> amazement at the level of sound an orchestra can put out. And that was
> only a Tschaik symphony, there were comments about environmental hazard
> areas when we (an OK community orchestra played the Verdi Requiem)
>
> The first factor is the instruments themselves. There is a trend to
> having instruments which project more and more. Just think about the
> options you may be able to have on a Bach - heavy bell, bore size,
> reduction of resistance with reverse leadpipes and rounded tuning
> slides, mega mouthpieces, all the way to Monette's contributions. That's
> just trumpets, trombones have changed greatly as have tubas in the last
> 50 years. Woodwind are subtly changing as well, there are developments
> in padding that effect clarinet sound and projection.
>
> Then there's the audience expectation. The vast bulk of music listened
> to is recorded, and 'newer' technologies, such as digital recording have
> allowed for greater range of dynamics, so people expect to hear very,
> very soft and very, very loud.
>
> Conductors tend to want to impress with grand gestures of extremes as
> well (sometimes they are even considerate enough to be reasonable!).
> Last weekend's concerts of Schubert Symphony #whatever - The Great - saw
> me playing so loud and soft in the second movement I started to wonder
> if I was right, or just plain misreading the gestures out front...
>
> Just these few factors add up to louder (and softer) orchestras, as far
> as I hear it (ringing in my ears).
>
> Cheers
>
> Andy
>
>
>  So, what????
>
>  This reminds me of the tennis world discussion about whether or not we 
> should go back to wood racquets because everyone hits the ball too hard 
> with the new space age rackets. Regardless of what you think, the new 
> technology is here to stay, and the players won't give up their higher 
> faster louder trumpets, or their bigger harder faster racquets. Beyond 
> that, this whole discussion is ridiculous since no symphony orchestra is 
> dangerously loud to an audience seated some distance away. Too loud for 
> some players who sit in front of brass and percussion, sure. However, 
> amplified music is DEFINETLY a problem and is often WAY too loud. Several 
> years ago I took my family to see Riverdance when it was here in Raleigh. 
> It was all amplified music and was not just uncomfortably loud, but 
> dangerously loud. My kids and I actually held our ears through much of the 
> show. The real issue here is the public's tolerance. Generally speaking, 
> the public does not seem to find most amplified
> music to be a problem. And I certainly don't hear complaints from our N.C. 
> Symphony audience members about volume levels. The ONLY people that seem 
> to regularly complain about this are symphony musicians who sit directly 
> in front of the loud instruments. We could all just play mf on every loud 
> piece and, but I doubt our audience would find it very interesting.
>
>  Paul R

Well, back in my day, sonny, they had circuses, and these had instruments 
called, "steam calliopes". These were kind of like portable pipe organs, 
(usually carried on a flatbed truck) but they ran live steam through the 
pipes, and they were LOUD!! They could cut through the noise of several 
thousand screaming children, and still come out on top.......