[TPIN] Good or bad,..here it is

Mark Deaton mdeaton at ix.netcom.com
Thu Nov 2 10:36:42 CST 2006 

Hmmm... Interesting thought.  Perhaps it is a sharp 11 (B) and not a flat 5
(C-flat).  It's definitely a tension note that resolves around C in the next
measure.  Anyway... I have the transcription finished and will be e-mailing
it to those who requested it (off-list) once I have it cleaned up.  For
those who haven't heard this album, it's one of his best (IMHO) and last. 

Mark 

-----Original Message-----
From: tpin-bounces at tpin.okcu.edu [mailto:tpin-bounces at tpin.okcu.edu] On
Behalf Of Jeff Helgesen
Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2006 10:19 AM
To: Byron D. Jones
Cc: tpin at tpin.okcu.edu
Subject: Re: Re: [TPIN] Good or bad,..here it is

Byron:

At the risk of falling far afield of the main topic...

The 11th (4th) scale note ever a vanilla major7 chord is *generally*
considered an "avoid note" unless it's used as a passing tone.  (It forms a
tritone with the major 7 in the chord.)

Cb (B natural) in a Fmaj7 would be a #11 if it were a chord tone.
It's not entirely uncommon but more likely in Chet's case to be a chromatic
upper/lower neighbor to C that he's laying on to add tension.  (I say this
without hearing the recording or seeing the transcription, so caveat
emptor.)

Of course, if the piano player is playing an Fmaj13 (no 11) or an explicit
Fmaj7#11 or G/F, it could be considered a chord tone.  Hard to tell in this
case without hearing the recording.  Typically the first change of "Four" is
a vanilla Fmaj7 (transposed for trumpet).

-- jeff

On 11/2/06, Byron D. Jones <reddogremodelers at kc.rr.com> wrote:
> The Cflat is the 11th in the chord. It sounds good to me, and 
> relatively normal in jazz.
> Byron
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mark Deaton" <mdeaton at ix.netcom.com>
> To: "'Jeff Helgesen'" <jeff.helgesen at gmail.com>; "'Jon Trimble'"
> <jontrimble at cox.net>
> Cc: <tpin at tpin.okcu.edu>
> Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2006 7:43 PM
> Subject: RE: [TPIN] Good or bad,..here it is
>
>
> > Speaking of transcriptions, I've been doing a study of Chet Baker's 
> > work recently, and have taken it upon myself to transcribe the solos 
> > off his "Chet Baker in Tokyo" album -- a fantastic piece of work!  I 
> > just started working on the first cut, which is Miles Davis' Four.  
> > After the break, he lands squarely on a C-flat whole note over an FM7
chord.  Fascinating!
> > That's not something I would have thought to do, for sure.  I'd be 
> > happy to share the transcription with anyone who wants a copy when 
> > I'm done (I can scan it to a PDF doc and e-mail it).  It should take 
> > me another couple of days to wrap it up.  It's a great solo, and he 
> > consistently plays...
> > ahem...
> > "wrong notes" in places that make my head spin.  What a brilliant 
> > musician he was!!
> >
> > Mark
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: tpin-bounces at tpin.okcu.edu [mailto:tpin-bounces at tpin.okcu.edu] 
> > On Behalf Of Jeff Helgesen
> > Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2006 6:53 PM
> > To: Jon Trimble
> > Cc: tpin at tpin.okcu.edu
> > Subject: Re: [TPIN] Good or bad,..here it is
> >
> > Jon:
> >
> > Okay, I'll keep prattling a bit and hope that others will chime in 
> > as well.
> > All of my comments should be taken with a grain of salt, I'm not an 
> > educator or even a full-time player anymore, just someone who likes 
> > to think about these things in the hopes that I can answer a 
> > question once in a blue moon.
> > :-)
> >
> > "Inside playing" is all about reinforcing chord tones.  The most 
> > inside improvised solos will, more often than not, reinforce (play) 
> > chord tones or inferred chord extensions on the beats.
> >
> > Practically speaking, it's almost impossible to play a convincing 
> > jazz solo following this "rule", so we incorporate things like 
> > anticipation/delay of resolution and other devices (e.g., rhythmic 
> > devices, quoting tunes or "cliches" [licks passed along through 
> > performance practice], etc.) to make the solo more interesting.
> >
> > Alot of this can be absorbed through >>very focused listening<< and
> >>>transfer to the horn<<.  Loading up the iPod or whatever with Blue
> > Mitchell is all well and good, but unless you get into the nuts and 
> > bolts of the devices being used (you may be doing this, I'm speaking 
> > generally), you don't get a whole lot out of this.  It's kind of 
> > like trying to learn about movie making by watching a movie...you 
> > have to focus your observation and then try and generalize what you 
> > observe in ways you can apply.
> >
> > I hope that doesn't sound more complicated than I mean it to be.  
> > But you're basically trying to learn and apply very basic 
> > compositional practices to performance on the fly, and it requires 
> > some rewiring of the head to do it.
> >
> > As evidenced by the samples you provided, you are already "making 
> > the changes".  This is a good place to be.  At this point, I'd be 
> > adopting a sound model (Derek, my mind's eye sees you generalizing a 
> > response
> > already)
> > and coming up with a plan for trying to do a compare-and-generalize 
> > plan for trying to incorporate what you like from the player you 
> > choose.
> >
> > I hate to beat a dead horse, but memorization/transcription is a 
> > great way to do this.  Your time constraints may make transcription
impossible.
> >
> > My recommendation would be to pick a tune over which you anticipate 
> > having to solo over the next week(s)/month(s), find a solo that 
> > represents some techniques you'd like to master, and then we can 
> > talk about how you can go about approaching that.  Does "Perdido" 
> > fit that bill, and if so, do you have any recordings of players soloing
over the tune that you like alot?
> > (It might even be someone you're playing with -- it's okay to steal 
> > from your neighbor in this case -- :-] ...)
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Jeff
> > (happy to have something to contribute for a change...)
> >
> > --
> > Jeff Helgesen
> > Buy our CD at http://cdbaby.com/cd/jazzmayhem 
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> > http://tpin.okcu.edu/mailman/listinfo/tpin
> >
> >
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>
>


--
Jeff Helgesen
Buy our CD at http://cdbaby.com/cd/jazzmayhem
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