[TPIN] Schilke VS Bach comparison

[Steve B]

While this all makes great sense the one concern I
have is that, following the lifting analogy, you can
work to or even past failure as long as you maintain
technique.  It is probably easier to ensure good
technique with the large muscle movements and a good
spotter.

If you work past failure with your embouchure and
start to compromise technique it can become counter
productive.  I think this is easier to do than with
lifting.

Steve
--- Glenn Bengry <soundpretty at hotmail.com> wrote:

> 
> Guys,
>  
>  
>      I have posted a couple times about this, not
> that I'm the expert.  Body builders most often use a
> principle called working the muscle to failure,
> working it continually(without stopping at all
> )until it feels like you can't do any more.  You try
> to push beyond that point as much as possible, since
> the body at that point begins to recruit more muscle
> fibers.  The nervous system actually wires up these
> newly recruited,(previously unused and
> undeveloped)fibers.  When you work a muscle group to
> total failure and beyond you feel a burn, an ache. 
> After this you DO need rest.  Depending on the
> strength and conditioning of the player, the muscles
> may be fine the next day, but often they will be
> real ''stiff" a little tired and sore perhaps.  This
> is a good thing since it tells you that your muscles
> DID get a good workout.  You may have to just warm
> up a little and get some blood flow through the
> area.  You may have to take the day off or you may
> do well to play but do a light playing day. People
> often say that if you work the chops hard like that,
> your workout is wasted if you dont give the muscles
> enough rest.  This is tough to do because we are
> impatient and because we do have playing obligations
> the next day.  You may have to really plan the days
> when you'll do a workout where you trash the muscles
> that much.
>  
> A method many of us have used the CARUSO METHOD
> there are members of the list that have studied with
> Carmine Caruso.  It is a kind of calisthenic
> approach to work the muscles continuously without
> rest in  his systematic way.  It is not supposed to
> be musical,  you get strong before you refine your
> strength.  The basic method is available, but it is
> most effective to get somebody experienced with it
> to coach you through  at least at first.
>  
>      It is tried and true.  some of the best,
> strongest most consistent players living have used
> it and still use it.  Some would consider it a MUST
> for a player who really wants to develop some CHOPS.
>  
>  
> glenn
>  
>  
> > From: dlmcgill at comcast.net> To:
> tpin at tpin.okcu.edu> Subject: Re: [TPIN] Schilke VS
> Bach comparison> Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2007 12:50:34
> +0000> > Can anyone help? I am looking for some good
> science on developing embouchure strength--muscular
> strength. > > I have been studying Arnold Jacobs and
> Phil Farkas. I also They both emphasize wind
> capacity, which is undoubtedly the most important
> factor in developing range and endurance. HOWEVER,
> there is also no doubt that the mouth/ cheek/facial
> muscles must be developed also. From my sport
> science studies (and personal experience), I know
> that REST is critical for muscular development. Body
> builders and other sports trainers have incorporated
> this principle into their training regimens for
> years. Does anyone know of a method that applies
> these muscular/physiological principles to trumpet
> playing? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > **************************************> > See
> what's free at http://www.aol.com.> >
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