[TPIN] ANALYZATION/MASTERY/GREAT ART

[Glenn Bengry]

Mike,
 
    For what its worth, we have not agreed on the definition of what art is.  So, for the sake of discussion, I looked up the Webster's definition, which we can decide to use or redefine what we use for discussing what is art and what isn't.
 
Art- skill acquired by experience, study, or observation  
 
      4) the conscious use of skill and creative imagination esp in the production of aesthetic objects
 
Seems to me that I was using the first definition and you were using the fourth definition contained in Webster's New Collegiate Dictionary.
 
    So I really was correct based upon the definition I was using but not if it was in the context of   the 4) definition which seems to be closer to your idea off what art is.
 
 
glenn





From: Glenn Bengry <soundpretty at hotmail.com>Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 12:41:27 -0400To: Michael Anderson <manderson at okcu.edu>Subject: RE: [TPIN] ANALYZATION/MASTERY/GREAT ARTMike,      You did a great job of fine tuning the differences. I didn't express my idea well enough.  playing the trumpet can be an art, I believe.  Perhaps we have to define art specifically in order to talk about it in some meaningful way.  Say you are playing second trumpet in your orchestra.  Their is an art of knowing how to use your horn and your skills as you say to match the lead, to play in tune with the lead to turn a phrase, to know what kind of attack,  what kind of decay, what kind of color of sound and on and on.  Their is an art to playing second trumpet in an orchestra.  And when you have a second who uses the skills and knowledge to create great music I consider that a form of art..  We've both been there. So the premise was, using your terms here, that skill and knowledge have to be aquired before the use of these tools can be turned into something resembling art or something artistic glenn xx> Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 10:24:03 -0500> Subject: Re: [TPIN] ANALYZATION/MASTERY/GREAT ART> From: manderson at okcu.edu> To: soundpretty at hotmail.com; olaf.brattegaard at nrk.no; tpin at tpin.okcu.edu> > > > Complex movements and Experienced Accomplished Athletes and musicians, have> > MASTERY over many many many movements required. Playing the trumpet is an> > art, ski jumping is an art, playing golf is an art, crafting violins is an> > art, painting is an art, making music is an art, infinity.> >> > I can't agree.. Some of these things are all skills and there is a big> difference. We often misuse the word "art." I'm a fly fisherman and people> talk about the "art of flyfishing." Its no more art than a worm under a> bobber. It does require considerably more skill though and it can sometimes> appear to be visually artistic, but it is all skill and knowledge.> > Composing, improvising and interpreting music is art. Playing the trumpet is> not. Craft is skill. Creating something original is art. I even think that> the large majority of music interpretation is a skill not an art. Its a fine> line and I'm not always sure where it crosses from skill to art. For some it> never, ever crosses. They play a passage like they have heard it done or> have been taught to play it by rote. Even in jazz... Until the improviser is> improvising music that isn't parroting some other player they are learning a> skill and engaging in a craft.> > Good teaching is an art. In fact, I feel that I am engaged more as an artist> when I am teaching than when I am playing and I play over 200 gigs a year.> I'm rarely creative in my orchestra gig. I'm rarely creative on any gig> other than solo recitals and even then the interpretation is a combination> of skill and art. > > I have found that this is really hard for people to understand because we> have used the word "art" so generically. Just because we are engaged in an> activity classified as "The Arts" doesn't mean we are engaged in true> creation. Most of the time we are simply using our skill to display someone> else's art. This is like a quilter following a pattern, a chef following a> recipe a mason following a blueprint a fly tyer following a pattern recipe,> an accountant reconciling the books, a farmer planting a field. Skills.> > Mastery is about developing skill. "telling your story" and "expressing> yourself" through what you are playing is where the art comes in and it> doesn't happen that often.> > My 2 cents. ;-)> > MA> >