[TPIN] Big or Small???

[Andy Del]

Thanks for your input, Mike. I do feel however, that you are not really
taking on my comments as I wrote them, and are exaggerating  your response
to a degree.

[big edit - I lost the original response, oops!]

First up - what is different about the size of young people's lips that
makes a couple of mm such an issue? Sorry, I think you're way off base here.
Between 8 and 18, total lip volume increases by only about 50% - over 10
years at a reasonably steady rate. (Ferrario, Sforza, Schmitz, Ciusa and
Colombo, 1999. Journal of Anatomy) You're not suggesting that kids at this
age need to be considering their playing in upper the register are you?

>From what I have observed, the mpc that most naturally fits the kid/adult
face is a larger alto horn. Kids about 3 or 4 seem to be able to honk away
on a trumpet very easily and naturally: much more so than 8 - 10 year olds.
But, I could be wrong... this is only my experience.  ;-)

Muscle development comes into the same camp - do they really need such
'development' for their first notes? Does not a good airflow help to get
notes more than a crutch, such as a small mpc, or lead mpc for a learner
player?

As to a disservice - I didn't mention keeping kids on a 1 1/2C forever. I
start them there, as there is room in the 'piece to get used to playing..
These kids play what - an octave? I don't think they need a specialist mpc
for this, and in reality, don't need something custom fitted to their lips
yet. Let them spend some time getting used to sitting well, breathing well,
developing a vigorous air flow, and they'll have something going for them.
Later, they can (and quite a few of my students do) move to other sizes. Not
that many, but then again, I do try to get them to blow well, and not rely
on equipment. One guy's just recently moved to a more lead style mpc. Fair
enough as he's playing lead in our big band. And piccolo tpt repertoire, and
1st tpt/cnt in band and 1st tpt in the orchestra. How's a 3B/3C/3E wad of
mpcs look to you? He's only got a fair F (above the stave) at present - on
braces, too.  

The student I referred to in my original post is looking at a chasing a
commercial playing career. Cool, seeing as he's got about a 5th more range
than I have, his 3E seems to be working well. He doesn't want to use a
'real' lead mpc at present, as he's very into his impro and also orchestral
playing. Take another guy who is also starting piccolo - he's using an old
Yamaha 11 with great results. His Bb mpc is a Laskey 75MD.

It's interesting you play everything on one size mpc. I use the same rim for
everything, and just vary the cup/throat/backbore for tpt, flugel, cornet,
piccolo etc. Each to their own - and my students do what suits them -
especially as they develop. I do feel that what they need at the4 start is
something which allows them to put air through the horn. A 1 1/2C does this.

Yes, there are those who are very bolshy about mpc sizes, and refuse to
consider anything else. Not me, sorry.

cheers

Andy


-----Original Message-----
From: tpin-bounces at tpin.okcu.edu [mailto:tpin-bounces at tpin.okcu.edu] On
Behalf Of vaxtrpts at aol.com
Sent: Thursday, 14 June 2007 3:49 PM
To: tpin at tpin.okcu.edu
Subject: Fwd: [TPIN] Big or Small???





-----Original Message-----
From: vaxtrpts at aol.com
To: trumpetplayer at optusnet.com.au
Sent: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 10:47 pm
Subject: Re: [TPIN] Big or Small???


Well, I would have to completely disagree with this. Young people do not
have the lip size, muscle development or any thing else to start on a 1 1/2
C.  Talk about possible discouragement?  I also suppose you wouldn't let one
of your students play a "real" lead trumpet mouthpiece, even if their life's
desire was to play like Wayne Bergeron or Buddy Childers, or Bill Chase? I
know that the big mouthpiece "camp" looms large on this list, but there ARE
those of us who play everything on a smaller mouthpiece.  Those mouthpieces
are NOT "screamers" or "cheaters," but the proper tools for the jobs that we
do.  And - as I have said before on this list, there are those of us who
actually do ALL of our playing on one mouthpiece, and it happens to be
towards the smaller end of things.  This is not wrong, it is just
different.  Granted that most of us who do this are commercial players, not
orchestral players.  But if one of you has a student whose desire is to play
the more commercial end of music and you won't even let them try a smaller
mouthpiece because it will "hurt their sound, or endurance, or flexibility,
or whatever," then you are doing them a disservice.  As I have stated
before, some of the most glorious trumpet sounds I have ever heard were
performed on "small" equipment. Rant over. Mike Vax


-----Original Message-----
From: Andy Del 
To: 'Glenn Bengry' 
Cc: tpin at tpin.okcu.edu
Sent: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 1:24 pm
Subject: RE: [TPIN] Big or Small???



A wise player once said to me that on trumpet it takes MORE lip control,
xperience and being in shape to play on a small mouthpiece than a larger ne.
You've got a (admittedly slightly) smaller cup and rim to put very mall
muscle control into: when he was out of form, he used a larger mpc to ood
result. This is why ALL my starter students get a 1 1/2C mouthpiece to play
on. The ajority - by far - have fewer issues with their production than
those who rrive after a few years of playing on the usual 7C or Yamaha
equivalent. More experienced students use different mpcs. I think my best
student is sing a 3C/3E depending on lead playing / piccolo / Bb / C. cheers
Andy


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